Wednesday, May 21, 2008

On race construction



found here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/herzogbr/2228668286/

Please consider an earlier post on this blog "On Whiteness" for more

22 comments:

Ebony Intuition said...

I think i've seen this picture before

Alienation said...

AJ:

Wow, I never saw this particular one. Funny tho how the classifications have changed to suit the motives of those in power. The only class that does not change now are the "black and white" categories, etc., because the perminent under class and overclass are "black" or "white".

How come haitians aren't considered latino? Latino is a linguial group based on those from countries that speak a language of latin origins. Haitians speak french, which is a latin language that shares the island with d.r. but they are two groups?

At least this picture acknowledges the diversity of the black race to some degree ::shrugs::

aj, do u remember that convo we had about the question "what are you"? And how its perceived very differently based on racial categories? It can be offensive if one is in the groups who is on the verge of assimilating, or a reminder that one is not white. But to a black person, it is a neutral comment because one is acknowledging that we allll look different, and if one isn't hung up on the category of "black" you can tell the difference between an african american, an african, a west indian, a black East indian, etc., so "what are you" becomes a breath of fresh air (thank you for acknowledging my ethnicity over my permanent underclass "black"). RACE IS ONLY WHAT YOU ARE PERCIEVED AS BY THE WHITE POWER STRUCTURE. Which is why Bob Marley is permanetly black, and Mariah Carey is not even though they are both half white.

I think about how it is not P.C to call someone who is japanese chinese, however black people can fit one group category because of our permanent underclass status. And despite the fact that an Ethiopian, an African American, and sometimes a west indian can look substiantly different it's totally P.C to label us all black or african american, or some varying degree of insanity.

Am i makin any sense at all?

Tiffany E:

Our convo about is it positive to reclaim "blackness" when it clearly puts our "racial class" over our culture is a good convo. But if one does not embrace blackness, are we disassociating (aka self hatred)? I remember having a convo or something with someone about how feminists do this too and using the book I haven't read (lol) as a reference. The Whipping Girl which AJ is supposed to be lending me. Feminists, should we reclaim our "femininity" and what it means to be "feminine" or reject it? Which is self hatred/ conforming and which is not? Etc., etc.,


A lot of my political life (10 yrs starting monday haha) I thought to reclaim my "black" identity is positive. But that comes with dehumanization and the invalidation of what constitutes my blackness. If I am Bajan (West African, East Indian, Ethiopian, etc.,) and I am African American: (West African and native American) How can I limit this into one category? Is it positive? Why or why not? I used to refuse to mention my ethnicity and identify as black because so many people use it as a scapegoat to dissassociate from blackness out of self hatred. But isn't their something wrong with claiming the identity whites labeled us as the default which is NEGATIVE? But how come people NOT in the permanent category of blackness CAN mention their cultural background and no one listens if we do? Makes no sense. But race makes no sense :-P

I think I am starting to repeat myself. haha sorry.

Ebony Intuition said...

But isn't their something wrong with claiming the identity whites labeled us as the default which is NEGATIVE?

See this is a great question, by claiming the identities that whites labeled us is only causing confusion. For example I was born in Canada and my mom is from Barbados, my father is also from Barbados so my heritage is West Indian ( even though my parents aren't Indian) so thats an incorrect label.

2nd example Alicia Keys her mom is of Irish and Italian Descent and her father is is Jamaican but yet both Alicia Keys and I would be labeled Black. If Alicia keys is Black then what am I, because I am darker than her my hair is tightly curled African hair, Alicia has loose curls and her skin is white..Ain't that confusing..

Ebony Intuition said...

Nationality is a relationship between a person and their state of origin, culture, association, affiliation and/or loyalty. Nationality affords the state jurisdiction over the person, and affords the person the protection of the state.



Generally, nationality is established at birth by a child's place of birth (jus soli) and/or bloodline (jus sanguinis).

To me you are what your mother is, why do I say this because a women gives birth and DNA is carried through the mother (mitochondrial DNA)

Ebony Intuition said...

I was justing talking with a friend on myspace about this african ancestry dna test and she made a good point also about the dna which i mentioned in my prior post..

"your mitichondrial dna does not change from female to female."

Now this quote is true, the only time it changes is when a female from another clan now has a child with a male from a different clan.. i.e the Alicia keys example therefore Alicia keys is Irish/Italian not Afro- Carribean because you are what your mother is not what your father is...Hell i know what I just wrote is damn confusing but true lol

Alienation said...

Idunno what happened I swear i went on some kind of typing spree. But, I'm mildly confused about racial classifications maybe someone else can ask the government WTF is the deal?

"i.e the Alicia keys example therefore Alicia keys is Irish/Italian not Afro- Carribean because you are what your mother is not what your father is."

I totally agree with this now. Mothers are generally the primary caretakers of children. because of that the culture of your mother is your primary culture. This is why Bob Marley is black. I do understand like, Halle Berry's opinion that she is black because she looks black. But that's just your race classification, not cultural background. In her instance or maybe someone like Montell Williams (half white but looks black) can you be a different racial classification than your primary culture? Aka primarily white culture and yet black racial identity? ARGHHHHH! So confusing!

Biracial people who experience racism are more likely to get empathy from whites "awww, Poor kid is half human aka half white and has to deal with prejudice" than a black person as well as more "relatelatable"? I've seen this on several levels. For example, even if a biracial person looks "black" or the stereotype of what "black" looks like (like halle berry) people will acknowledge her attraction BECAUSE she is half white, even tho she looks black. (Black women are not allowed to be attractive, because white supremacy must make white woman the epitome even above white men to preserve white lineage). So acknowledging a "mixed girl" as attractive is ok, because she must have gotten her attraction from her "white side" as where Obama must've gotten his intelligence, naturally of course.

It's like, Rosa Parks being PICKED because as admitted because she had very light skin (sympathy), and being closer to white which makes her by default more feminine and plays on sexist stereotypes/standards that a feminine woman was not given a seat over a man. it's brilliant because it works and the strategy is kind of amazing, but still hurtful because if it were a dark skinned woman would people have been as empathetic?

Alicia Keys is very well liked some of her appeal is her "crossover" appeal which is emphasized by half-whiteness, and obviously Barack Obama is more successful because he is half white even tho he looks black. Dark skin is threatening to whites, and people are classified differently on a mass scale by how close they resemble whiteness. So to call a light-skinned black person, a biracial person, and a Sudanese dark skinned person by the same racial classification when they are clearly treated differently STILL doesn't make any sense. None of this shit makes sense when we think about it does it? lol


I know I am lengthy but thats because I write my thoughts out to understand them. Analyze, analyze, analyze (my piss poor excuse for being the wordy ho all ho's love to hate.) lol :-P

P.S crazy as shit that Osama Bin Laden is considered white since arabs fit the new definition of the umbrella of caucasian? That's weird. Just wish more whites would get stopped at the airport ;-)

Ebony Intuition said...

"but still hurtful because if it were a dark skinned woman would people have been as empathetic?"

True, I'm very sure that many darker skin women refused to give up there seat back in those days, but as you said no one would have cared. Even many of the leaders back in those times 1900's-1965's where preaching for blacks to stick together but at home teaching their children to not bring a ni%%er home.


"Dark skin is threatening to whites, and people are classified differently on a mass scale by how close they resemble whiteness. So to call a light-skinned black person, a biracial person, and a Sudanese dark skinned person by the same racial classification when they are clearly treated differently STILL doesn't make any sense."

Exactly this is why I get so pissed off when I have conversations with white women who have children for black men. A white women in (north america) will fight to death to argue that her mulatto child is "Black". But then will makes statements saying that their child has a better life because they have the best of both worlds. BS They really want to say that because the child now looks white which means the child will be given more privilege and status that the child has a better life..And white women are well aware that everyone gets treated different but they still push everyone even their own mixed children into the same classification.

I get so angry too because white women will indirectly make statements trying to say that they would be a better mother to a black child and what makes the situation worse is that black men fall for it. I remember having a discussion on myspace where a female asked are white women capable of raising black children and this mulatto female said yes white women can raise black children and she had the nerve to say that the question should be can black women raise black children. Then she went on to say that all black people are jobless, have no education , and are always committing crime..I responded to this mulatto female saying is THIS WHAT YOUR WHITE MOTHER TAUGHT YOU ABOUT YOUR FATHERS SIDE OF THE FAMILY..She didn't even realize that she just insulted half of her identity...Trying to show off that because she is white that she is better than her fathers side of the family..Lord help these people lol!!!

Alienation said...
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Alienation said...

"BS They really want to say that because the child now looks white which means the child will be given more privilege and status that the child has a better life."

What you just told me was really disturbing but for some reason i find it very reasonable to believe. It's like the ridiculous assumption that just because you adopt a brown child from some exotic country that the child will have a "better" life . Which is ethnocentric, nationalistic and yes...racist.

"I get so angry too because white women will indirectly make statements trying to say that they would be a better mother to a black child and what makes the situation worse is that black men fall for it."

Yeah, obviously people reallllly believe the whole white savior myth. Notice how stereotypes about black women being mammy's and yet, incapable of raising their own children are inherently contradictory. I don't think men "fall for anything" in general because to say that is not to hold them responsible for their actions. It is totally acceptable to be sexist/racist towards black women without so much as a flinch, on behalf of white men and women and black men because we are the silent minority. And it's easier to spread stereotypes of black women for many men then it is to correct that abusive behavior that so many black women endure in silence. I guess this is why you are right that our responsibility as black feminists is to get this out in the open. I just find it hard to acknowledge racism against black men while simultaneously being a feminist who holds them responsible for all actions which is what feminism is about. But you are correct that black men spread stereotypes about black women while exploiting them because this is what all oppressors do. Yet, liberals have sympathy for black men, and in doing so encourage more oppression of black women. I'm just not totally comfortable talking about this to white people but maybe that's something I need to work on with myself personally. Here is an example. I hate cops and I think they are totally useless. But I also know that when black women are beaten by their spouses many members of the community will tell them not to discuss it in public because black men are unfairly treated by cops. So public knowledge of this 1. Puts black women in a position of "keeping quiet" and 2. More of an excuse for police presence, which, trust me is not created to help black women in any situation. SO WHAT THE FUCK DO WE DO?! Tell black women to shut up about abuse and rape and not go to the police? Or encourage more of a police presence which is pretty bad also? And should I CARE about the police presence when it affects black men more than black women, and many black women do feel a bit safer with police around despite police harassing women because men are a lot less likely to assault women walking home alone if they see an PD car near by? Where should we stand?


It's not hopeless to have good parents of two races and I think Halle and Alicia both had very good mothers who acknowledged racism, and they are more identity conscious than many people who don't come from such parents. But when a man marries a woman out of being brainwashed by white ideals and that woman is flattered because it confirms her white superiority we cannot expect anything other than what you described. How would we fix a situation like that, and furthermore, is it even our responsibility? ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why'd I become a feminist it is so fuckin hard! haha.

Thanks for challenging me tiffany, I love our conversations! Please be a guest commenter!

Ebony Intuition said...

"Why'd I become a feminist it is so fuckin hard! haha."
Trust me it is, read Stuck in Middle over at www.womanist-musings.blogspot.com



"Notice how stereotypes about black women being mammy's and yet, incapable of raising their own children are inherently contradictory. "

Thanks for making this connection, I never even realized this myself. Black women are forced to take care and serve everyone but at the end of the day we're told that we can't take care of our own, which makes no sense...



"But I also know that when black women are beaten by their spouses many members of the community will tell them not to discuss it in public because black men are unfairly treated by cops. So public knowledge of this 1. Puts black women in a position of "keeping quiet" and 2. More of an excuse for police presence, which, trust me is not created to help black women in any situation. SO WHAT THE FUCK DO WE DO?! "

This is true, I've witnessed this situation more than once in my life and i've experience it (not in terms of physical violence).
I had did a favor for a (now ex boyfriend) that involved a car, everything was going fine then tickets started to come and he would make up the most excuses to not give me the money to pay the tickets . It got to the point where I told him its either you take the plates off the car (which by law the car was mine cause it was in my name) or I'll go to the police station and report the car missing and explain to them the whole story. And of course I had to end up going to the fed station and explaining the whole story which the police officer said I did the right thing. And they put a warrant out for his arrest. And im happy I did go to the police and I don't regret it at all. Not allowing a black man to take advantage of me because im a black women.

P.S The ex boyfriend still hasN'T been able to put a car back on the road its been over 2 years now, he drove his licence and car and profile with the police down the drain all on his behalf because he wanted to use and abuse people to do things for him and it and ended up backfiring on HIM!!!!!!! SELFISHNESS, POWER AND GREED ONLY ENDED UP HURTING HIM MORE THAN IT DID OTHERS AHHH TO BAD LMAO

Alienation said...

Your story is so fucked up. I am glad you made the right decision!


When I was a freshman in school i had a similar thing happen w/ questioning calling the police but with a stalker. My best friend and I were hanging out with this other girl who we used to hang out with. It was when classes let out and we stayed over the summer and the campus is pretty empty. So my best friend (male ) leaves to go home and he notices that this guy is watching me through the window and is attempting to come in and had already barged into the house while we were all there. So to make a long story short, the guy was looking through the window and my best friend came back and we went back through the woods to another apartment.

So the girl we were hanging out with said we should file a report with UPD and we got into this massive fight because me and my best friend (he's semi-conservative ) about the purpose of cops etc. They ended up calling the cops despite my disagreeing.
When the cops showed up and I described him (like a lil taller than myself, athletic and darker) they called for backup WE ALL SAW THEM DO IT. So they took us down to the basement where the office was and we filled out a report. They also found his friend and showed him who reported his friend (fucked up, right?).

We even went to our black female professor who was a womanist, then and I didn't really know anything about womanism or feminism at all. And the girl we were hanging out with was an upperclassman and said that I didn't want to file a report and the professor was like "WHY are you putting some guy who clearly didn't have your best interest above your own? Black women deserve our humanity too, it has nothing to do with pro-blackness to put your safety in jeapordy", etc., and sat me down and talked to me even tho it was my first time really meeting her and I never did that again.

But in the meantime me and my best friend got into a huge fight over them pressing charges and my choice not to even though I was stalked. It seems moronic that I was thinking like that, but then again I was 18yrs old. lol. we talked about that the other day, and he makes fun of me for being wrong the ONE TIME he was right!! ha

Also last Wednesday I was followed home by a group of guys who were saying things, etc., on my block. I love my neighborhood because wtf roti, mango lassi, sweetbread, sugarcane, etc., are literally a block from me and I think my block is like, beautiful with tons of trees. lol But I also know that I am not safe there at night, this was like 930. They literally followed me screaming and I don't carry weapons but was nervous about telling my friends. Even AJ who's understanding and political, and lives a few blocks from me. And i know it's because I'm brainwashed to not rat out black men and give whites an excuse to be racist against them, and I've told my friends that because we are really really honest with each other about race, that I'm uncomfortable with that. How come because I'm a black female people assume I am safer in "unsafe" neighborhoods? Lemme guess, black women are "strong" will give them "attitude" and its the end. But come the fuck on, there were 6 guys following me and I have never been in a fight except when i was little with my brothers. lol. But how many liberals will say all cops should be moved from inner city neighborhoods to protect black men? Obviously, this is done partially so that black women are even more vulnerable than we are now. I've literally looked at women who get harrassed, sometimes as young as 14 and they look scared and try to make an "angry face", but you can tell they are scared shitless. And this is Brooklyn where everyone has a reputation for being "tough", especially black women. But I've seen many girls do the "pretend to be tough" even tho they are scared to death for their safety. Wtf, this is long but you get my point. I HATE COPS, I've had bad experiences with cops and them harassing my perfect A++ student brother who has never fought or done a bad thing in his life because he's 6'6 and black, and I am uncomfortable with the fact that cops are friendlier to me than they would be to him if he were in trouble. i know allll about what cops do to black men. But where does it leave us if cops were never around??? It's a difficult question.

Ebony Intuition said...

"I love my neighborhood because wtf roti, mango lassi, sweetbread, sugarcane, etc., are literally a block from me and I think my block is like, beautiful with tons of trees. lol "

Your making me want to go to the west indian store right now..lol

"How come because I'm a black female people assume I am safer in "unsafe" neighborhoods? Lemme guess, black women are "strong" will give them "attitude" and its the end."

Good point, I really hate this strong black women crap too, even non black women use this statement "oh well black women are strong so deal with the fact that no one wants to proctect you or date you" BS...

Its true it leaves us in a difficult situation because we are brainwashed to keep quite and not tell on our own men, but then have to deal with actually being scared for our safety...but everyone assumes that beause we are strong that we don't have to deal with anything

Alienation said...

"Your making me want to go to the west indian store right now..lol"

LOL yeah my dad was mad jealous. My hometown is pretty homogeneous so when I called him and told him about it I'm like "Daddddd, I just thought u were weirdddd! I didn't know half of this stuff was Caribbean?!" LOL

OMG Linseed tea with vanilla and coconut as well as the veg. soy roti I had last night gave me an orgasm...lol

"Its true it leaves us in a difficult situation because we are brainwashed to keep quite and not tell on our own men, but then have to deal with actually being scared for our safety...but everyone assumes that beause we are strong that we don't have to deal with anything."

When I was lookin for my place, and I went to sites about neighborhoods all these white women were like "I am blonde. Would it be safe for me there"? It's the most hurtful to hear. Which says 1. I'm blonde, everyone desires me so they will harass me. 2. Who cares what happens to women of color, I'm blonde I don't deserve to die or be raped. 3. Black women are "strong" they can handle rape. Which is so disgusting I don't know where to begin. or 4. Black women can fight off attackers with their invisible muscles? I'm helpless, they have guns? LOL? WTF? I know people rape because they have psychological issues but come the fuck on, people rape because of power. And guess what? Black women don't have the POWER to tell or go to the police, or to be encouraged to tell police. so who is more vulnerable? WHERE IS THIS ALLEGED STRENGTH BECAUSE I DON'T SEE IT.

Ugh. Fucking stereotypes designed so that the most vulnerable are labeled the "strongest" just so that those in better positions can keep their privilege. And then we think being "strong" is considered positive when all it means is that we are subhuman and don't have feelings and can withstand rape, cheap labor, mistreatment and violence. Yet we will accept it as a not so bad stereotype because its better than everyone's favorite name for us which is "bitch" (always complaining when people mistreat us. How EVIL?!?!) So we sit in silence so we won't be labeled the "angry black bitch" word. I've literally heard women say "I'm strong" just so that they can convince themselves as though they are not allowed to be upset when fucked up things happen to them, you don't have to "suck it up", even white women are allowed to cry and be emotional if something bad happens to them. Black women aren't even allowed to do that. fucked up.

Ebony Intuition said...

"I am blonde. Would it be safe for me there"? It's the most hurtful to hear. Which says 1. I'm blonde, everyone desires me so they will harass me. 2. Who cares what happens to women of color, I'm blonde I don't deserve to die or be raped. 3. Black women are "strong" they can handle rape. Which is so disgusting I don't know where to begin. or 4. Black women can fight off attackers with their invisible muscles?"


OMG...You have to be kidding me..



"WHERE IS THIS ALLEGED STRENGTH BECAUSE I DON'T SEE IT. "

Exactly I don't see it nor feel it at all..



"I've literally heard women say "I'm strong" just so that they can convince themselves as though they are not allowed to be upset when fucked up things happen to them, you don't have to "suck it up", even white women are allowed to cry and be emotional if something bad happens to them."

I've witness this also, black women putting all the blame on themselves just so they won't be called a bitch, or so they won't upset a man. Its very very sad because black women continue to do it all the time and this is why there is so much depression , its just not noticable because we hide are true feelings..

Alienation said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alienation said...

"OMG...You have to be kidding me.."


Nope. These "I'm a white girl everyone wants to rape me despite rape of me being statistically lower" sites come a dime a dozen. Actually someone else mentioned what i was thinking here.

http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=354511
Pretty much, a black woman brought up the point that black women get harassed a ridiculous amount and raped and robbed...here come the white people to say that she's imagining it, DESPITE statistics and common sense.


Rochester, Brooklyn, Canada, whatev. The basic thing is that most black neighborhoods are filled with 90% families who are working class and trying to pay bills on time, raising children etc., and are trying to make ends meet making them relatively safe. THE PROBLEM is that because of hoodlums everyone locks themselves indoors at night and the hoodlums therefore get allowance to run the streets. The hoodlums own the night in the black community. At home, it was white yuppies at the local pub at night, in Egypt it seemed to be little kids lol they were everywhere at night (maybe to hot to play during day?) lol idunno whatev my point is that the "Night" belongs to certain groups in different communities. Whether that be Greasers, or Bikers, or "the boys". But a different set of people always seem to run/occupy the streets at nights in communities.Black neighborhoods are no different.

But the difference is that it is LESS safe at night, ONLY because everyone else is indoors. BECAUSE they are afraid of hoodlum nonsense too, they just lock themselves in. (dont tell white people this. they are convinced that the average black person has seen someone get shot, loves crack needles, and don't believe in rape as opposed to the LOGICAL explanation that black people are just as afraid). But I guess if white people didn't lie to themselves about their imagined fear there wouldn't be segregation in the first place.


Only 20somethigns stay out way late at night, anyway regardless of color. Hoodlums don't care as much about black people seeing them do dirt, because like i said black folks are afraid to go to the police. But it also depends. Is it a shopping district? If so more people are out late. Or just houses, residential houses, or a place that requires police presence? etc. It all depends. No place is really safe for black women...very different with whites... which is why I'm planning to get some mase and spray the FUCK out of the next group of guys that follows me home. lol, nah. that wouldnt be smart but i should have it i guess. X to the O.

Alienation said...
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Anarchist Jew said...

I want to be very honest here. Before I moved to my new (black) neighborhood, i thought that i would get more unwanted attention from black men because i would stick out- this has not proven true.

Unfortunately, these men and boys make rude comments to any young womon who passes by- ive seen it numerous times and ive seen numerous ways that these womyn respond but NOTHING gets them to back off :(.

It is not the beauty of a womon that elicits this unwelcome attention, but it is simply a perceived need by men to assert themselves as superior. simple. It is also the encouragement from their peers that perpetuates this behavior- therefore, in some communities, males don't harass in this same way. I don't feel comfortable trying to break down why more black than white men harass or if this is even true although it is true in my experience.

Please do not spare my feelings when responding to my comment.

Alienation said...

FYI

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/
mi_m1355/is_n6_v89/ai_17932598

(space after article/ needs to be deleted so the link works.)

"I want to be very honest here. Before I moved to my new (black) neighborhood, i thought that i would get more unwanted attention from black men because i would stick out- this has not proven true."

Yes. You would stick out in regards to staring. But like, I stick out because I'm tall and that warrants staring. In all honesty, I feel that people CAN (and let me know your ops on this) feel that you moving to a black neighborhood is a GOOD thing. Lemme explain. People have a mixed reaction, sorta like with cops. They hate gentrification as do I, but also are relieved because the appearance of more whites moving in makes THEM safer. Especially to women, and in particular older women and probly older men. It's like seeing a bunch of cops all of a sudden. Like, black people in general hate cops because they are racist bastards. But with that hatred comes a shred of relief for many people. When whites move in, they are protected by cops, so, in that roundabout way many people have that mixed reaction towards whites moving in. I don't think you're more likely to be harassed. In general, whites are used to being the majority and are put off when they are the minority, and get afraid for that reason. Where as, black people are used to white people because they are the majority. etc., etc., so yeah, that mixed feeling about the sudden appearance of whites and starbucks bring up complicated feelings for black people because we have complicated feelings just like everyone else in the human race...

"It is not the beauty of a womon that elicits this unwelcome attention, but it is simply a perceived need by men to assert themselves as superior."

YUP. It's kinda like that notion that "height" makes a difference. It's kinda like how someone of Sheryl's stature would be precieved as more "non threatening" and therefore more likely to be assaulted. But at 8 feet I still get harassed and followed, even by men shorter than me.
You'd think that being 8 feet tall would make men afraid to stare and make comments. So when people say "oh well, no one will bother you because you're tall" it's definitely not true. This is the same kinda misconception that comes with race. Black women aren't massively enrolled in self defense classes. Black women don't own guns. I know I had a convo in OAPIA once where so many black women said that they fist their keys between their knuckles in case they got assaulted when I brought up the question, so, nobody is strapping or even carrying knives. So this is a lot about misconception, and yes, POWER. Height doesn't matter, clearly. Your being white doesn't matter, my being black doesn't matter. Men harass because all of them, no matter how old, young, decrepit, short, black, white, hot, plain, etc., CAN because of power. And they feel totally comfortable exorting power over us despite such things.


"I don't feel comfortable trying to break down why more black than white men harass or if this is even true although it is true in my experience."

I'm well aware of this. I'm just terrified people will use it to be racist against black people in general. I think that when I break down why black men are more AGGRESSIVE (key word) than white men who also harass it makes a lot of since.

1. Overcompensation. Black men never being seen as men so they become more "dominating", blatantly masculine, sexually aggressive etc., (which is their appeal to many white women, in my opinion) so they exert power because they can't overcompensate by exerting money or success the way white men can. A man harassing women is just as "masculine" as one driving a brand new mercedes convertable, except one can exert dominance in a different way through working on wall street and driving a convertable. The other can't so exerts his dominance in the only way he can. Therefore black feminists who were before us tried to analyze this and were told they were "emasculating" black men, hense taking their only source of power. They hold onto this privilege because at the end of the day, its really the only thing they have to exert dominance.

2. Black politics in the stone ages. Thanks to the legacy of racism, as a community we have always had to put emphasis on overcoming that. So while whites had the freedom to organize against sexism and homophobia for example we were working on racism because that was often the most blatant concern as well as the very invalid belief that if we weren't engaged in classist and racist oppression, everything else would fall in line. Part of what I learned when researching the nation of islam and black nationalist politics was thatblack women should support black men in gaining liberation because the "black man's liberation will liberate the black woman". Both me and tiffany e. felt this at one point, many black women do. So many black women and queer black people combat racism FIRST because thats what we're taught should come first. Thus it allows sexist and homophobic behavior to continue, since all our focus was on racism and racism hasnt ended yet.

3. Having a surplus. Black men have an undeniable surplus and dominate black women which largely goes unchecked because feminism laregely benefits white women. In other cultures all over the world, men have to work at least in order to be considered valuable for marriage. Black men are so rare that black women HAVE to date whats available. There are few "couples" events, or singles dances or wtfever and since there are far less black men in college than black women (i mean like 7 to 3), etc., where do we have as a choice to meet potential mates? On the street.

4. Not being held accountable for what you CAN be held accountable for because of racism. Largely their behavior goes unchecked because we are focusing on other things such as hoping that they'd change or making sure they don't go to jail. So while other women are encouraged to "marry up" or find sucessful men in general black women are encouraged to "marry down", date ex-convicts, etc., just so we can make more sons so the black community won't go instinct. People have no time for reflecting when they are in "survival" mode, and by and large, any behavior black men do goes unchecked. Men who are unchecked end up spoiled in patriarchy. White men are the same way. How many white rich brats or boys were raised with mothers fawning over the "glorious male child" who are now emotionally fucked up and mistreat women because they "want their mommy"??? LOL. that exists in all communities but because of racism, black men aren't considered responsible for their own destiny, which turns a male in this society into an asshole. because of patriarchy as a system this allows black men to also keep privilege but blame everything they do to black women on racism. It's like the whole black panther party/ abuse nonsense. Black men cannot be held responsible for any actions and when they hit women, its because of racism. when they cheat, its because of racism. when they conform to white ideals of beauty its because of racism. So being sexist is interpreted as "because of racism", despite that being the only thing in society they CAN control. How do you hold men responsible when all odds are against them? Black women become "golddiggers" when they ask for mates on their economic level when black men are less likely to finish school. Have "attitudes" for not responding to unwanted attention, or expecting men to take care of themselves. Being "jealous" because by and large black women stick to limited choices and try to build the community up by sticking to men despite their number of polyamorous relationships...While black men who finish school conform to media ideals and blame black women for choosing to date out. Are "supportive" when black men choose to hit them and they understand out of racism and all the other foolhardy stuff that goes on. I mean, look at the Dunbar Village thing where there was a mass movement to get the boys who did it out of jail and the black woman who got gang raped was expected to suck it up. All of this is common. And are "strong" (supposed to be good) when they do all of this without saying a word.

5. Psychological problems stimming from an unfair life. Most oppressed communities have these types of problems maintaining healthy relationships with each other, and those "like" them and creates chronic mental problems. The ONLY group black men can take these very valid problems out on is the only people that are conditioned to give undying/unwavering support: black women. So when black women seem as tho they are going to "break free" they inadvertantly become afraid and lash out. I don't know how many more times I have to read a statistic about how black women finishing college are more likely to be victims of domestic abuse. Men tend to lash out at women when the woman is taking over patriarchal roles like providing, being more successful, etc., and "keep them in their place" by mistreating them.

6. My Ballz: So as black feminists it is important for us to be very careful. Offering our sympathy actually maintains our dilema so wtf do we do? Don't get me wrong white surpemacy created all these things that we have to destroy. But oppression is more complicated than it seems or that we believe it is...ALWAYS. Which is why I was glad that I was in a group like OAPIA where I could analyze these problems. When Malcolm X said that whites shouldnt join black movements he was smart enough to realize that black oppression is so complicated that whites interfering even if they had the best intentions could be hazardous because of their subconscious superiority baggage, and our inability to function as a community because of oppression. SHIT IS FUCKIN CRAZY RIDICULOUSLY COMPLICATED. We will never fully understand the span of this fucked up systems problems and how they spread.

See what happens when you ask questions?? It's YOUR fault I went on this massive typing frenzy.

Feel free also tiffany to respond in case I left something out.

Ebony Intuition said...

"in Egypt it seemed to be little kids lol they were everywhere at night (maybe to hot to play during day?) lol idunno whatev my point is that the "Night" belongs to certain groups in different communities."

Lol to the lil kids in Egypt, but yes I get what your saying its true, same thing up here in Toronto, I know that if im in a certain area, i'll try to get home before its to late. In general a lot of men are out at night because a lot of men work over night shits etc..or just hanging on the street corner.



"they are convinced that the average black person has seen someone get shot,"

This part gets to me because I have seen it happen, and have had to flee 1 to many times in my life from shots..

"which is why I'm planning to get some mase and spray the FUCK out of the next group of guys that follows me home. lol, nah."

I don't blame you, when I was going to school for fashion design, i was always coming home late like 2-3 am and i worked at a club on the weekends so i would come home like 4-5 , i use to walk with this tool we use in fashion to trace the patterns, image a circle on a stick with multiple sharp points sticking out of it..(yea if that caught your face , your a gonner) i carried it with me and i carried my scissors i used for cutting clothes because on a weekly bases it got sharpend on those metal things..

Ebony Intuition said...

"They hate gentrification as do I, but also are relieved because the appearance of more whites moving in makes THEM safer."

Great article on gentrification
http://www.racialicious.com/2008/05/29/i-colonize/

"Black women don't own guns. I know I had a convo in OAPIA once where so many black women said that they fist their keys between their knuckles in case they got assaulted when I brought up the question, so, nobody is strapping or even carrying knives. So this is a lot about misconception, and yes, POWER."

So true, people swear think that black women can just fight off 10 people at once..Hell I can fight but I can't fight off everyone dammit ..

"SHIT IS FUCKIN CRAZY RIDICULOUSLY COMPLICATED."

trust me it is...im so printing your list on how black men use racism to avoid taking responsibilty.

I would also like to note...A 19 year old was killed in cold blood, right in front of my old neighborhood, and another black 20 year old was killed cold blood in another area of toronto. This happened yesterday.

I'm in rage of seeing black women crying over the death of their children, because any time something happens the mothers still get the blame, mind you the fathers are usually never to be found in these situations, black men going around and killing each other is a serious mental problem that black men.boys have and has nothing to do with women. black women are trying their hardest to raise their kids hold down 2 jobs and still spend time wit their kids and try to keep them out of trouble...

Another reason why i brought this up, is because this is another reason why white women will use inter racial dating as a crutch to say they are better mothers. think about it, a white women doesn't have to worry about a police officer opening fire on her white son, a black women has to worry about not just a cop wanting to killer her son, but also another black men wanting to take her son. The police protect white children, the police don't protect black children, so if a black boy was in trouble and knew that some other boys may be bothering him or threatening his life, he knows he can't go to the cops because the cops will assume that he might have a gun too. so see how this puts our own children in a worse situation when it comes to their lives..

Ebony Intuition said...

WOC are forced to put black men first to save them from the effects of racism over their own health and saftey and their childrens safety...This crap needs to end NOW...!!!